Beta stats – Before the changes

This is before the stamina / mastery changes on beta. I’m only posting this for my own reference later on, and so you can see the huge difference between bears and the other tanks. These are all premades with heroic level blues. All the gear is gemmed and enchanted in the same manner. I went for socket bonuses that I thought were worth it.  All stats are unbuffed and in proper stances/forms.

Also note, that block is NOT avoidance like dodge and parry are. Block is shaving off 30% of physical damage on a blocked hit, hence why Bears have SD and DKs now have Blood Shield.

Bear stats
HP: 130283
Agi: 3079
Stamina: 9093
Armor: 31806
Dodge: 28.56%

Paladin Stats:
HP: 120215
Str: 2670
Stamina 7711
Armor: 35462 (without devo – 39538 with)
Dodge: 11.92%
Parry: 13.79%
Total avoidance: 25.71%
Block: 41.34%

Death Knight stats:
HP: 123365
Str: 2789
Stam: 8026
Armor: 36750
Dodge: 8.61%
Parry: 15.38%
Total avoidance: 23.99%

Warrior Stats:
HP: 119145
Str: 2577
Stam: 8310
Armor: 35462
Dodge: 10.39%
Parry: 14.01%
Total Avoidance: 24.40%
Block: 38.05%


I do this, again, to show the massive lead that bears have both health and avoidance-wise.  Not to mention, the incredible scaling that SD has with HP and Vengeance so they are very far ahead of the other 3.  That is nowhere near balanced.  Bears take less damage without even trying.

Now, the 65-35% SD “nerf” was coming.  Bear mastery still scales from Vengeance AP.  What this change did was bring us down to Warrior and Paladin, with, more than likely, a slight lead on physical mitigation.

The stamina nerf, while painful, was somewhat necessary.  We do not have “less” than the other tanks.  I should still like to have more health, even if it’s 1% more, but it is what it is.  If we were over-nerfed, and it will be noticeable with raid testing, we will be brought back up.

You may also notice the ~4k armor difference that we have.  We take 2% less damage from our forms than Paladins and Warriors. DKs have the lead with 2% less than Bears, and 4% less with Paladins and Warriors.

Druids: 12% Damage reduction from Natural Reaction
Warriors: 10% Damage reduction from Defensive Stance
Paladins: 10% Damage reduction from Sanctuary
Death Knights: 8% Damage reduction from Blood Presence, 6% from Blade Barrier for a total of 14%

Now after looking through all of this… And noting that DKs have a similar mastery to us, you may think that DKs are now THE tank. And with the changes… they will be. The problem here is, there hasn’t been enough DK representation in Beta raid testing to make a numbers adjust. If they are not nerfed before Cata, chances are they will be by the end of the first tier of raiding.

This is the absolute closest I, and others, have seen tank balance in terms of damage taken. While the stamina hit still stings, it’s too early to be crying wolf.

Also, Survival Instincts was brought up to have a 3 minute CD. Still 50%, still 12 sec duration.

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19 Responses to Beta stats – Before the changes

  1. Personally, I love the changes. I really do. Now I’ve only been tanking on a bear for a few weeks, but I’ve been tanking for nearly 6 years. Bears are, on live right now, and in beta before this latest fix, way too potent speaking in survivability terms compared to the other 3.

    I’m watching the Nefarion video Ires AoD put up on their site, and their druid tank is tanking Nef after he drops. You can see that he’s taking full absorbs, and they’re mostly based on SD. When you can fully push a melee hit off of a final bosses attack table without doing anything special, there is something wrong.

    Not to mention we can passively take 6% less spell damage than other tanks(ams not included from dks, grrrr dks!)

    I’m quite sure that DKs will be brought in line, if not now, then soon.

    Is the sky falling? I haven’t been hit by it yet, I’m pretty sure I just stopped holding it up by myself though and now have other tanks to help.

  2. tbot says:

    The one thing about SD that is going to become a little bothersome is that with gemming and reforging and gearing, everything we do affects it in some way.

    My big issue is that the only way druids have of increasing our uptime on sd is through sacrificing HP. namely gemming agi vs stam.

    Warriors get an increase in uptime and potency with their mastery.
    As do dk’s as their shields don’t go away until completely absorbed.
    Paladins gain only uptime but start with a far more potent ability.

    I do not like that our mastery stat affects size as opposed to uptime, yo-yo tanking is not enjoyable

  3. tbot says:

    I’d also like to point out that the Lacerate glyph is more important now then it was. With the reduction of swipe and thrash dmg and the removal of dot procs for sd, You will find yourself spamming lacerate fillers all day long.

    It will be your best chance of a proc.

    • Reesi says:

      I would rather have the dot portion proc SD rather than what the glyph is now. Taking Lac ticks off the SD table to force us in not using Thrash for single target was a terrible way of enforcing it. Our SD uptime won’t be as bad as you think, nor will it make us a yo-yo. If you want to talk yo-yo’s, you should see how bad paladins and warriors had it with raid testing.

      I know Cata is only a month away now, but that’s still a month of raid testing and number tweaking, which, if the rapid changes to tank CDs are to indicate anything, happens all the time.

      • tbot says:

        Uptime is as bad :P it went from 62% in pre-raid gear to 35% in the same.

        Thats pretty substantial and those numbers are under best case scenario. IE one mob swinging at 2.4 speed. I understand that we were doing too well, but I feel that is more of a case of SD size as opposed to uptime. It’s just something I am going to keep an eye on when we actually get there.

        I do like the CD changes, the shield block change is exactly where i thought they’d go with it. Hopefully they don’t mess up the way it works in other tiers. They say “100%” but hopefully they have the insight to use 100% vs opponent x

      • elle says:

        agree. the removal of crit dot SD procs is really the only thing that i’m disappointed about the changes. i know SD was OP, and expected a nerf (though they didn’t address what i think is the real issue, which is that our mastery scales with both primary stats, while all the other tanks only scale with 1, but whatever).

        i really liked SD proc’ing on dot crits. this gave us potentially 2 different rotations, 1 that focuses on max lacerate / thrash uptime to give higher SD uptime (the mitigation rotation), and one that focuses less on bleeds – likely ignores thrash altogether (the threat rotation).

        personally, i think that could be a really cool tradeoff. one i’d like to see all tanks have – the idea that you can sacrifice threat for mitigation via rotational differences.

        oh well.

  4. Demosthanes says:

    It will be interesting to see what the same raw numbers turn out like once the changes take effect, though a little backwards math could determine what health will be like with the new change.

  5. doombear says:

    SI is currently 60%.. was this nerfed?

    also, what happens when i pop SI, barkskin and enrage =o ? 92% dmg reduction?

    • Bare Bear says:

      I think SI is 50% now on beta.

      So I believe the total reduction is 1 – (0.5 * 0.8 * 0.88) or 64.8%.

    • Reesi says:

      It was brought down to 50%, yes. The first change was a 2-minute CD with 50%, the next was bringing the CD up to 3. However, all the other major CDs received the same treatment. Warriors are the exception, but their Shield Wall is either 40% with a 2 minute CD or 60% with a 4 minute CD.

      Damage reduction effects are multiplicative rather than additive to keep stacking them from being too OP.

      • Broh says:

        Reesi your in the beta right? if you are and you record any vids can you post them up on youtube…i can’t find any good feral tank vids up there from beta…

  6. Reesi says:

    I am in Beta, however I have hardly touched it recently. I’ll see what I can do.

  7. Tundrawalker says:

    I too would like to see some bears in Cata tanking! :)

  8. Aqusinna says:

    Im confused…Reesi Said:

    “You may also notice the ~4k armor difference that we have”
    “We take 2% less damage from our forms than Paladins and Warriors”

    yet taken from the Armor numbers listed:


    What am I missing here? Seems to me that neglecting SD the Bear would take more damage.

    • Reesi says:

      I’m referring to damage reduction talents, in addition to physical reduction via armor.

      12% DR from Natural Reaction. (+6% magic reduction from Perseverance)
      10% DR Sanctuary
      10% DR from Defensive Stance
      14% DR from Blood Presence (8%) + Blade Barrier (6%)

  9. Aqusinna says:

    DR % = Armor / (Armor + 400 + 85 * (AttackerLevel + 4.5 * (AttackerLevel – 59) + 20 * (AttackerLevel – 80)))

    it seems to me that our lower armor in your listed stats more then compensates for the 2% less damage from stats…well for Bears anyway (obviously ignoring SD).

    (59% DR from Armor) 12% DR from Natural Reaction. (+6% magic reduction from Perseverance)

    (64.5% DR from armor) 10% DR Sanctuary

    (62% DR from Armor) 10% DR from Defensive Stance

    (62.8% DR from Armor) 14% DR from Blood Presence (8%) + Blade Barrier (6%)

    I’m not QQing here or anything, it all seems to balance out really close, just my observations right now.

    • Aqusinna says:

      The clarify “balance out really close” Meaning we still take ~1% more damage from physical attacks. The 6% magical DR may make us better against Magic damage then at least warriors.

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